Minutes: December 3, 1999
Facilitators and Attendance
Facilitating the meeting was George Alwon of The Raleigh Consulting Group, Inc
There were 23 members present. They are listed as follows:
| Name | Affiliation | |
| Jim Talton | Chairman, Citizens Advisory Committee | |
| Allen Jones | DJB Construction Group | |
| Ann Rollins | PTA | |
| Bob Williams | Retired, NCSU | |
| Brooks Gulledge | Residential Contractor | |
| Chuck Fuller | Citizens for a Sound Economy | |
| Diana Bader | PTA | |
| Don Walston | Howard, Perry and Walston | |
| Dr. Edna Black | Education Management Consultant | |
| Ferris Chandler | Retired, Cooper Tool | |
| Forrest Ball | Real Estate | |
| Joe Sansom | State Treasurers Office | |
| John Boling | SAS Institute, Inc. | |
| John Boylan | Spectrum Properties | |
| John Dornan | Public School Forum | |
| John Hood | John Locke Foundation | |
| Larry Dickens | DOT | |
| Randy Jones | Rhone-Poulenc In-House Attorney | |
| Renee Shaw | CCB | |
| Ross Rhudy | Raleigh/Wake Board of Realtors | |
| Susan Fonville | PTA | |
| Terry Yeargan | Bovis Construction Corp. | |
| Truman Newberry | Architect |
Those not present are as follows:
| Name | Affiliation |
| Blount Williams | Alfred Williams |
| Bob Beasley | Mallinckrodt |
| Bynum Satterwhite | Wake Education Partnership |
| Joe Whitehouse | CMS |
| John Linderman | Grubb & Ellis |
| Joyce Fennell | Teacher |
| Maebelle Hudson | Wake ACT |
| Nellie Tomlinson | Attorney, Womble Carlyle Sandridge & Rice |
| Tim McBrayer | Signature Publishing |
Minutes
The minutes for the meeting of December 3, 1999 are as follows:
Six groups made presentations:
1. The Wake County PTA
Ann Rollins, Diana Bader, Barbara Freedman, and Susan Fonville, spoke on the facilities survey given to the PTA board and its general membership. The survey had questions regarding minimum facility standards and different tax options. They found out that, in general, people do not really understand the tax options. They also spoke on overcrowding, magnet schools, and the need to invest more money into the older schools.
Committee members' questions and comments:
- Promotion and understanding, capping, renovation of older schools, tax options not understood
- Safety and security important, expect high academics, communication and minimum standards are high, need more education for parents about funding
- Need to educate parents about funding options, magnets are good, use older schools; good for kids and good for us, do not forget the arts
- All facilities are necessary but do not know how to fund them. Did not have a position on what source funding is best
- Discussed survey results. Council needs to do better job of explaining what is going on and what options we have available. We have to educate children Ð no choices! Older buildings are needed; let us not get rid of them!
- Public/parents expect to have core facilities Ð cafeteria, playground, athletic fields. Overcrowding needs to be addressed. Arts, etc., are essential. There are 11 magnet programs. Increase public support
- Need to promote what? People do not understand funding options. Crowded schools hurt education process. Capping is a reality in Wake County schools. Great program value in using older schools. Keep facilities for arts Ð needed by students
- Return older buildings. Equity of new vs. old
- No real surprises. Older schools are great but need to be updated. Need for ancillary facilities for arts, chorus, etc. Renovations are critically needed.
- A minimum of 10% of the Citizens Advisory Committee is under direct control of PTA officers; how will this influence decisions? Equal facilities do not exist - but never will.
2. Gary Joyner of the Greater Raleigh Chamber of Commerce
Joyner spoke about the 1¢ sales tax and the push to obtain more money from the state. They oppose the transfer tax. Joyner made the suggestion that the chamber should work with the Citizens Advisory Committee to put together a survey to give to their small businesses to find out what they want and what they are willing to pay.
Committee members' questions and comments:
- Wants to raise taxes/funding. One of the fastest growing areas of the country, but no recognition is given to the increased funding that comes from increase in the taxes. The chamber has not looked outside of the traditional public system for solution to school facility challenges, specifically free market solutions that could assist with these challenges.
- Problem is overcrowding. Need to look into funding methods. Tax increase was probably too high. Ceiling was only $200. Committee suggested. Not much substance. Masters of the obvious
- Other sources of funding needed (not just property taxes). State needs to examine formula for allocating money to Wake schools. They oppose transfer tax for funding. Funds should come from broad sector; not just one business/industry. Should chamber pole their members for ideas and thoughts?
- Overcrowding will not go away. Facility needs will keep growing. Need new classes and renovations. Look at state and federal regulations. Look at all sources of funding.
- Enhances overall quality of life. Important to include more than just four walls Ð gyms, audit, etc., are needed! What kind of facilities should we provide and what sources of funding are available? One cent sales tax may be a good option.
- Would like to get more money from the state. Although bond did not pass, chamber believes folks believe education is important! Failed because of taxes! Opposed transfer tax as an option. No poll of the membership has been done Ð this may be a good idea.
- Supports need to fund schools. Supported school bond issue; supports additional sources of funding other than property tax and local sales tax. Opposes real estate transfer tax
- Look more at options for building and funding. Get state to change funding formula
- Look into state/federal regulations. Chamber felt sales tax was good but not recommended
- Supported good public education. Need to survey membership of chamber as to funding sources, etc.
- Statistical survey of membership. State funding equity options
3. The Wake Education Partnership
Tony Habit spoke on the Bond Feedback Analysis, the Public Education Community Assessment, and issues in moving forward. In summary, they found that citizens have high expectations of schools, lack understanding of school spending, are willing to increase taxes for quality, expect equitable access to resources, and place more confidence in the teachers than elected officials.Committee members' questions and comments
- Bond Feedback Analysis - common suggestion is to use impact fees. Community assessment: 24% lack of confidence in officials, 20% opposed to taxes, lack of trust from Gallup Poll
- Need education on funding, build a sustainable process, seek broad consensus.
- Did poll after bond defeat - impact fee was the highest vote getter (up to 35%). Ready to do new Gallup Poll in next few weeks. People expect much from our schools. Equity very important to people who were polled. Need sustained strategy for connecting community schools. Emphasized efficiency and savings. Involve people that do not have children in school (senior and singles). Gallup Poll did not go deeply into finance issues
- Public has high expectations of schools. There is a lack of understanding of school spending. Public wants equitable schools
- Place more confidence in teachers than elected officials
- Much public misconception about school costs/expenditures. Surveyed 72% of public who are willing to pay more taxes for quality education.
- The community needs to know more about its school system. Get a consensus on what defines a quality education
- Citizens lack understanding of school spending. High expectations for quality education. Opinions they trust. We need to involve teachers in our subcommittees. Communicate well on complex issues
- Higher expectations of schools and support of public education. Lack of understanding of funding. Equitable schools across county. Teachers were most trusted for information about schools
- Higher expectations. Higher taxes Ð "yes" for quality
4. Homebuilders Association
Jim Wahlbrink stressed that they do not create the demand, but instead they react to the demand (growth). Wahlbrink said that the builders are not the ones creating the problem. They are opposed to the transfer tax and impact fees. Impact fees tax not only newcomers, but also those that are already here and buying new homes. The Homebuilders Association would support a 1¢ sales tax.
Committee members' questions and comments:
- Will aggressively fight any impact fee/tax
- Housing is infrastructure, not catalyst for growth. Housing should not be means to control or finance growth. He supports 1¢ sales tax.
- Misconceptions: Slow housing=slower growth; only new buyers buy new homes (62% of new home buyers already live here).
- One-cent sales tax Ð zero food included. Housing is a response to demand.
- They are the cause and cure! They are reacting to demand! Jobs are creating growth! They oppose impact and transfer fees! Affects cost of housing and is passed on to consumers! Support 1¢ sales tax as an option. Fairer for everyone! - does not overburden the older citizens
- Misconception that development creates growth, and that only new incoming residents create demand for development. New development is just a response to fulfill a demand and not the cause of the demand.
- Jobs/good economy drive growth/building. No transfer fee. Everyone has a right to education. Transfer fee is a disproportionate amount of money (constitutional issue)
5. Wake County Taxpayers Association
Tom Owen showed different clips on individuals that were upset over the tax increase. High expectations for quality education. Opinions they trust. We need to involve teachers in our subcommittees. Communicate well on complex issues
Committee members' questions and comments:
- Need to design a less costly school program
- Priority setting: fix what we have now, build more classrooms, build new administration space, explain "technology," cafeteria, physical education, prototype plans, construction technology
- Not satisfied that costs have been minimized. Not getting kind of quality education we want
- Laughable video Ð absolutely not representative of diversity in Wake County. Students do not like mobile units. Not ideal instructional environment. Disagree. WCPSS already uses prototype design. Athletics are critical.
- Failed due to taxes, not education. They support fixing what we have now! We need more classrooms! They believe in mobile classrooms. Why not rent schools? Need to better define technology in next issued. Supports PE space
- Not satisfied that the school budget has been sufficiently analyzed. Seems to be against any form of additional tax in general for any purpose. Spend money to fix existing schools first. Mobile classrooms are not so bad
- He only showed anti-tax people or people who do not understand what it takes to run schools or the government. People need education about the real costs or reasons behind the costs. Fix current classrooms. Find options other than buildings. Set priorities
- Be sure to educate correctly. The school system has been accused of using "scare tactics." That obviously goes both ways. Prioritize needs
- His video tells it all. Fix classrooms we have now. Build more classrooms. Build more administration spaces. Kids need physical education
- Repair neglected schools. Need more classrooms
6. Wake ACT (Association of Classroom Teachers)
Elaine Dillahunt spoke about wanting every teacher to be in a regular classroom, not in a mobile unit. Wake ACT wants existing classrooms renovated and technology improved across the board.
Committee members' questions and comments:
- Teachers need adequate classroom space and storage
- Provide adequate classrooms, renovate existing classrooms, create a safe and healthy environment
- Classrooms are the number one priority
- Want teachers in school classrooms, not in mobiles
- Adequate classrooms conducive to learning, improve facilities, current and updated computers are needed, need to reduce class size.
- Priority for whatever funding is available should go to providing additional classroom space and updating existing classroom space. Technology upgrades are also important.
7. Meeting on December 17
There will be an organizational meeting on Dec. 17 to look at the charge and determine the smaller groups.
8. Meeting on Cable
Time Warner Cable taped the meeting, and it will be played back on Channel 24 in Raleigh and Channel 60 in Cary on Mondays, 9:00 am and 8:00 pm on Dec. 27, Jan. 10, Jan. 24 and Jan. 31.